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 Post subject: Re: Stress
PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:28 pm 
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Posts: 808
eszterbanfalvy wrote:
The suffix -ive is not self-stressed, nor stress-fixing and usually behaves as a weak suffix.
Then what's the difference between consérvative and quálitative?
It seems to me that the difference is in the weight of the syllable before -ative: it is heavy in the first and light in the second case.
Here's a list of the relevant adjectives
Code:
ablative/'&bl@tIv
accumulative/@'kjumjUl@tIv
accusative/@'kjuz@tIv
administrative/@d'mInIstr@tIv
affirmative/@'f3m@tIv
agglutinative/@'glutIn@tIv
alliterative/@'lItr@tIv
alternative/Ol't3n@tIv
appreciative/@'priS@tIv
argumentative/.AgjU'ment@tIv
authoritative/O'T0rIt@tIv
causative/'kOz@tIv
combative/'k0mb@tIv
commemorative/k@'mem@r@tIv
communicative/k@'mjunIk@tIv
comparative/k@m'p&r@tIv
conservative/k@n's3v@tIv
consultative/k@n'sVlt@tIv
contemplative/k@n'templ@tIv
cooperative/k@U'0p@r@tIv
copulative/'k0pjUl@tIv
correlative/k0'rel@tIv
corroborative/k@'r0b@r@tIv
creative/kri'eItIv
cumulative/'kjumjUl@tIv
curative/'kjU@r@tIv
dative/'deItIv
decorative/'dek@r@tIv
deliberative/dI'lIb@r@tIv
demonstrative/dI'm0nstr@tIv
derivative/dI'rIv@tIv
determinative/dI't3mIn@tIv
evaluative/I'v&ljU@tIv
evocative/I'v0k@tIv
figurative/'fIgj@r@tIv
fixative/'fIks@tIv
formative/'fOm@tIv
fricative/'frIk@tIv
generative/'dZen@r@tIv
hortative/'hOt@tIv
illustrative/'Il@str@tIv
imaginative/I'm&dZIn@tIv
imitative/'ImIt@tIv
imperative/Im'per@tIv
inchoative/In'k@U@tIv
indicative/In'dIk@tIv
informative/In'fOm@tIv
initiative/I'nIS@tIv
inoperative/.In'0p@r@tIv
interpretative/In't3prIt@tIv
interrogative/.Int@'r0g@tIv
laxative/'l&ks@tIv
legislative/'ledZIsl@tIv
lucrative/'lukr@tIv
manipulative/m@'nIpjUl@tIv
meditative/'medIt@tIv
narrative/'n&r@tIv
native/'neItIv
negative/'neg@tIv
nominative/'n0mIn@tIv
normative/'nOm@tIv
operative/'0p@r@tIv
opinionative/@'pInI@n@tIv
optative/'0pt@tIv
palliative/'p&lI@tIv
pejorative/pI'dZ0r@tIv
penetrative/'penItr@tIv
predicative/prI'dIk@tIv
prerogative/prI'r0g@tIv
preservative/prI'z3v@tIv
preventative/prI'vent@tIv
provocative/pr@'v0k@tIv
purgative/'p3g@tIv
putative/'pjut@tIv
qualitative/'kw0lIt@tIv
quantitative/'kw0ntIt@tIv
rebarbative/rI'bAb@tIv
recitative/.resIt@'tiv
recuperative/rI'kup@r@tIv
relative/'rel@tIv
remunerative/rI'mjun@r@tIv
representative/.reprI'zent@tIv
restorative/rI'stOr@tIv
retaliative/rI't&lI@tIv
ruminative/'rumIn@tIv
sedative/'sed@tIv
significative/sIg'nIfIk@tIv
speculative/'spekjUl@tIv
subordinative/s@'bOdIn@tIv
superlative/su'p3l@tIv
talkative/'tOk@tIv
tentative/'tent@tIv
unappreciative/.Vn@'priS@tIv
uncommunicative/.Vnk@'mjunIk@tIv
unco-operative/.Vnk@U-'0p@r@tIv
undemonstrative/.VndI'm0nstr@tIv
unimaginative/.VnI'm&dZIn@tIv
uninformative/.VnIn'fOm@tIv
unrepresentative/.VnreprI'zent@tIv
vituperative/vI'tjup@r@tIv
vocative/'v0k@tIv

(nb i=iː, u=uː, O=ɔː, 0=ɒ)
The generalization appears to be by-and-large true, though not always, cf. admínistrative.

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 Post subject: Re: Stress
PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:13 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:22 pm
Posts: 3
The suffix -ive is not self-stressed, nor stress-fixing and usually behaves as a weak suffix.
Then what's the difference between consérvative and quálitative?
They are four-syllable adjectives so they should behave like nouns:
1. in consérvative the stress falls on the antepenult (ok), but
2. in quálitative the stress is on the first syllable. Why? Why not qualítative?
Does -ive behave as a weak suffix only in the first case? If the answer is yes, then how can I decide whether it is a weak syllable or not?
I have the same problem with imáginative - *imagínative.
Thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: Stress
PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:27 pm 
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Posts: 808
eszterbanfalvy wrote:
Because two-syllable adjectives follow the verb rules: so they are end-stressed if the ult is heavy (in this case ends in two consonants 'nt'). Isn't it the same: presént?
Adjectives ending in -al, -ar, -ous, -ant, -ent follow the rule for nouns.
eszterbanfalvy wrote:
I think the noun present is présent because generally the two-syllable nouns have the stress on their first syllable
Exactly, unless their ult is long: tabóo, granáde, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Stress
PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:17 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:22 pm
Posts: 3
Thanks for your rapid answer.
Now another question has arisen. The stress pattern of the verb is presént.
"There is also an adjective present with a different stress pattern." :shock: Why? Because two-syllable adjectives follow the verb rules: so they are end-stressed if the ult is heavy (in this case ends in two consonants 'nt'). Isn't it the same: presént?
(I think the noun present is présent because generally the two-syllable nouns have the stress on their first syllable, but please tell me if I'm wrong, I wouldn't be surprised.)
Thank you again.


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 Post subject: Re: Stress
PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:52 pm 
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Posts: 808
eszterbanfalvy wrote:
Why does present have its stress on the first syllable: pré+sent while in prevent the prefix is unstressed: pre+vént?
The stress pattern of the verb is presént, i.e., the same as that of the verb prevént. There is also an adjective present with a different stress pattern, but, of course, adjectives do not contain verbal prefixes.
eszterbanfalvy wrote:
Is it because in present the first 'e' = /e/ and the second 'e' is a schwa, so the stress has to fall on the full /e/?
No, it's the other way around: the vowel is schwa because it is not stressed.

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 Post subject: Re: Stress
PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:44 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:22 pm
Posts: 3
I have a question in connection with the stressing of prefixes:
Why does present have its stress on the first syllable: pré+sent while in prevent the prefix is unstressed: pre+vént?
Is it because in present the first 'e' = /e/ and the second 'e' is a schwa, so the stress has to fall on the full /e/?
But if it is so, what about prevent, ('e' = (/i/ - 'e' = schwa) where the stress is on the second syllable (i.e. the schwa)?
I guess the answer is simple, but I haven't found out yet. :?
Thank you in advance.


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 Post subject: Re: Stress
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:51 am 
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Posts: 808
elzazi wrote:
What about compound stress?
I cannot understand the stressing of compounds which contain 3 words. E.g. [órange juice) bottle -- why does the orange gets the primary stress? This is because this initially stressed comp. was inserted before the word "bottle"?
Exactly. Compound stress is [Xx], phrase stress is [xX]. A compund, whose first bit is also a compound will be [[Xx]x]. What else?
elzazi wrote:
My other question is: "If the matrix compound is initially stressed, the following pattern may result:" so why is it possible to have (foreign lánguage) teacher instead of (fóreign language) teacher?
Foreign language apparently has phrase stress ([xX]), if it comes to be the first part of a string with compound stress, you end up with [[xX]x]. If it is the second part of such a string it will be [x[xX]], but for rhythmic reasons (iambic principle), you get more stress on the first than on the second syllable, so eventually it is [X[xX]] (where the last X is bigger than the first).

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 Post subject: Re: Stress
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:41 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:40 pm
Posts: 6
What about compound stress?
I cannot understand the stressing of compounds which contain 3 words. E.g. [órange juice) bottle -- why does the orange gets the primary stress? This is because this initially stressed yomp. was inserted before the word "bottle"?

My other question is: "If the matrix compound is initially stressed, the following pattern may result:" so why is it possible to have (foreign lánguage) teacher instead of (fóreign language) teacher?

Thank you in advance.


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 Post subject: Re: Stress
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:58 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:15 pm
Posts: 808
Yes, at least when it is pronounced with stress only on its first syllable (this is not the only possibility for pronouncing it, but that is irrelevant here). Note that it is one foot in both the "only-binary-feet", and the "unbounded-feet" theory. This is what we call an empirical fact. The interpretation/analysis of this fact is the task of theories.

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 Post subject: Re: Stress
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:53 pm 
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So does the word (néce)ssarily have only one foot? Thank you for answering.


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 Post subject: Re: Stress
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 8:18 pm 
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elzazi wrote:
I also have a question in connection with stresses and stress feet.

If the word "horizontal" contains two feet (because it has two stesses: (hori)(zon)<tal> ), why does the word "cigarette" also contain two feet -- the last syllable should be extrametrical... its stress pattern (ciga)(rette).

cigarette was claimed to be exceptional in the lecture. But if you are prepared to go abstract enough, you could say that underlyingly it is something like [sIg@rett] and follows the verbal pattern, i.e., the "ult" is stressed because it is heavy (-ret<t>). The final tt is degeminated. We still don't understand why the Alternating Stress Rule does not apply. And the whole reasoning is circular. So we're better off simply accepting it as an exception.
elzazi wrote:
Moreover: what is the maximum amount of syllables a stress foot can contain?
Some say maximally two, so if there seems to be more in a foot, the extra ones are "unfooted": (néce)ssarily. Others say a foot can in theory have an infinite number of syllables, but longer feet are less likely, e.g., a two-syllable foot is most likely, one- and three-syllable feet are less likely, four-syllable feet are even less likely, seventeen-syllable feet are so unlikely that perhaps nobody has ever encountered one.

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 Post subject: Re: Stress
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 6:55 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:40 pm
Posts: 6
I also have a question in connection with stresses and stress feet.

If the word "horizontal" contains two feet (because it has two stesses: (hori)(zon)<tal> ), why does the word "cigarette" also contain two feet -- the last syllable should be extrametrical... its stress pattern (ciga)(rette).

Moreover: what is the maximum amount of syllables a stress foot can contain?

Thanks for your help in advance.


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 Post subject: Re: Stress
PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:28 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:15 pm
Posts: 808
Audrey White wrote:
1. what is the Secondary Stress Requirement?
No such thing. You may be thinking of the Early Stress Requirement: there must be stress on one of the first two syllables of a word.
Audrey White wrote:
2. what is the Alternating Stress Rule?
If the conditions are met stress is moved two syllables towards the beginning of the word, leaving minor stress on the originally stressed syllable: separáte becomes séparåte (where å marks a minor stressed syllable). Contra=díct does not change, because the ASR cannot move stress across a syllable that belongs to a verbal prefix.
Audrey White wrote:
3. Does last C off work only with the verbs?
And adjectives that behave like verbs. For nouns (and adjectives ending in al, ar, ant, ent, ous) the last syllable is off, except if it contains a long vowel, in which case that vowel is usually stressed.
Audrey White wrote:
4. is this statement right?: Main Stress Rule: verbal prefixes are not stressed.
Yes, cf. o=mít vs vómit, com=pél vs cáncel.

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 Post subject: Stress
PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 5:42 pm 
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Posts: 4
I have a few questions in connection with stress:
1. what is the Secondary Stress Requirement?
2. what is the Alternating Stress Rule?
3. Does last C off work only with the verbs?
4. is this statement right?: Main Stress Rule: verbal prefixes are not stressed.

Thanks for your help in advance.


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