ELTE SEAS

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Should teachers be periodically fired to save money?
Yes, there is no other way. 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Yes, but only as a last resort. 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Yes, if their work is not satisfactory. 21%  21%  [ 4 ]
Yes, but not in such a manner. 5%  5%  [ 1 ]
No, this is no way to treat teachers who work hard. 11%  11%  [ 2 ]
No, firing teachers cannot help ELTE's financial status. 26%  26%  [ 5 ]
No, everything should be done to save money without firing anyone. 16%  16%  [ 3 ]
No, under no circumstances should such a thing occur again. 21%  21%  [ 4 ]
Total votes : 19
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:35 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:53 am
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We have no names and I think they have their right to remain unknown.

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 Post subject: Re: Please, we have to do something to save our teachers!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:29 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 12:40 pm
Posts: 11
Location: Budapest
Norbi wrote:

Hey YOU! You have just got rid of 9 irreplaceable teachers!


Who are they? (I do not have the message you people keep referring to. Thanks.)


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 Post subject: Re: Please, we have to do something to save our teachers!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:08 pm 
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Location: Budapest
Adam Dobay wrote:
First of all, it makes me feel in socialism, writing a list of people that you do not think are good enough.


Reality is even more shocking than that. I know all the teachers personally. I have attended their classes. These teachers are among the MOST respectable and experienced ones in our COUNTRY! They have taught for decades. They have published excellent books, coursebooks and articles. Their students adore them. Any university in the world would die for teachers like these ... except for ELTE. Sacking excellent teachers should be the very very last resort!!!!!!!!! :evil: What is next??? :?: :?: :?:

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Last edited by Norbi on Thu Mar 10, 2005 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 9:46 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 9:25 pm
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Location: askme
Hello there,

Adam Dobay wrote:
The last "student protest" was a laugh. It was unorganized and pointless


This is exactly what I and some of my peers are afraid of. An ill-organized protest is worse than none. I WANT to do something to help, to reorganize, to stand up for our teachers and our future, to do anything I can -- but there is no one (student-)body to channel our efforts into one, cohesive & effective voice.
I am sorry to say I have been quite oblivious to the ELTE student bodies up till now, and have no idea who I can contact; who should be representing all these outraged voices I hear all around the corridors here at ADS and both at MUK, ...and even at the TTK.

As a first step, I made an appointment with the amerikanisztika-angol SZHÉK to hear me (us) out -- but if anyone else has a better idea, PLEASE let me know.
Up till the mass-email Szigetvári Péter wrote to the people registered on the SEAS server, noone knew anything! This is ridiculous.
For goodness sakes, some people do not even have an idea where the problem originates.

I will probably be asking our SZHÉK to organize a public hearing, or information-day (like the one at the TTK held by Professor Sas yesterday) where everyone can get acquainted with the situation. I will let you all know what he and I arrived to, here on the forum.

If anyone knows of other student bodies, independent groups, anyone who I may contact to get some answers and finally start to organize our energies into an effectively acting group, please let me know.

Thanx in advance,
Saiph
:(

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 7:42 pm 
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The last "student protest" was a laugh. It was unorganized and pointless, not to mention that its claims referred to points of a law to be passed that were not even in that law.
From Szigetvari's letter we know that even they, the SEAS staff are next to unable to do anything. The question is tough, then, what to do. If they can't do anything, who can? The ministry can't do much, since all their previous efforts to tell ELTE that what they are doing has already broken some laws have failed. Why? Whatever ELTE does, it can do - University Autonomy. ELTE has nothing at all over the top of it to overlook its workings and, if needed, take the necessary steps to sanction it. The ministry can't, no one can.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 7:02 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:02 am
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I totally agree.

Firing people will not save much money, as they do not earn much.
I am aware of the fact that ELTE is at the verge of bankrupcy, BUT THIS IS NOt THE WAY!

The strange thing is, that while letting more and more students go and study for ex. at this Dept. means a lot of money from the state, but firing 9 (is that the correct number of persons?) will mean that tere will be less staff for more students. Consequently, teachers will have less time for the students which will end up in decrease of the scientific field.

Congratulations!

Should there be a strike or written protestation for these teachers, I'll be there! :evil: :evil: :evil:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 6:28 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 10:43 pm
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Location: A prison called body
I totally agree. I don't want to see our best teachers fired and have some poor students instead who don't even get paid for their work.
Where is practice? Where is knowledge? Where is respect??!?
And what if we don't let them go?
I am afraid that they will kill the whole university, and we won't able to finish, since we won't have a PLACE to go and NO ONE TO TEACH US.
DO SOMETHING!!

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 Post subject: Please, we have to do something to save our teachers!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 12:01 pm 
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After receiving Mr. Szigetvari's letter of today, I was shocked. I still am in a shock. Why? Because this is one of the worst and most, I should say, devious attempts to save some money. I am sorry for the grammar and punctuality mistakes I shall be making in the following post, but I am just to irritated to be able to mind that properly.

I reckon most of you have gotten the letter which I do not wish to repeat here (if I may, though, I will). The Dean has presented the best way to save money. Yes, by terminating staff. At first hilarious, then pathetic, and finally, tragic.

The reason? Sorry, no money, we have to do this. Well you know what? That's what they call b***s***.
We have discussed ELTE's finance problems in other threads here in Student Power, and you might remember numbers like three hundred million forints spent yearly on international phone calls. As it is reported from other departments all around BTK, there's a lot (and by a lot, I mean tens of millions) of money spent on the most unneeded and stupid things I've ever heard of. Has there been any attempt to cut those numbers? No sir. Let's get rid of our teachers instead.
The always-mocked Ministry of Education has advised for two years that ELTE introduce a financial leadership that can actually do something with the enormous losses we have. But the response is always political from the University: "Oh, so Mr. Balint Magyar is trying to police us now, is he?" is the phrase I hear from top to bottom. Is this not the exact time when we do actually need someone who can handle money to let him or her work in their expertise?
Thousands of things could be cut down on. If I were up there, I would start with reducing everything else but the loyal employees, to save their jobs. Instead, this is much more like a sinking ship where the captain decides to throw the crew off the ship to make it sink slower, instead of having some men go down and fix the holes through which the water is coming in.

Has anyone yet considered what this teacher-kickin habit will cause? First of all, it makes me feel in socialism, writing a list of people that you do not think are good enough. I think that it is deeply unethical, unrespectful, and even inhuman. I feel ashamed that I go to such a university that has such moral values.
We're not cutting down on cigarettes here, people. These are men and women who have in certain cases worked many years for this institution, and for this? Why do we have to let our respected, sometimes admired teachers get sacked on such a basis? Who decides what their work is worth?
And where will it end? 9 teachers kicked from SEAS, but probably just as much if not more from other departments. Do you want to see our elderly and respected teachers go? Well I don't. I came here to learn from them.

Dear students of the Faculty of Arts, please let us, this time, at least try to do something to prevent this complete mockery of democratic rights. Not only is it inhumane and pathetic, it is a very bad excuse to raise money when there's thousands of other places where money could be raised from. We have to let those who let this happen know that we do not tolerate such a scheme!

Thank you for reading this. I accept that this post may be deleted if it is inappropriate for such a forum.

Adam Dobay

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