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After a careful examination of the documents attached, which of the two systems offered in appendix 1 do you prefer?
Poll ended at Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:27 am
TTK system 43%  43%  [ 31 ]
PPK system 21%  21%  [ 15 ]
they look equal to me 3%  3%  [ 2 ]
I know of a better one 33%  33%  [ 24 ]
Total votes : 72
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 Post subject: preregistration
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:52 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:07 pm
Posts: 6
Location: Pomáz / Budapest
I was so "lucky", that as an English and Psychology student, I could try a bit of all these systems (fighting, lottery, seas and ppk), so I decided to share my views.

1.) Anything is better than the fighting or the "lottery system" which was in the first year of my university life.

2.) The seas system is much better and reliable, than any other but to have two different systems together is the worst.

3.) There was some misleading info about having many friends to register for you in the etr, which is not possible, since you can only log in once with one code.

4.) I prefer the PPK version, since teachers have an extra ten percent to take in students over the limit and because I hate having no effect on how my timetable is formed (mázli points).

5.) The final thing which I prefer in the seas system is that things happen early enough! It enables people to have info already in the summer and change courses if they have to and still doesn't miss real classes. In addition, it avoids the problem of people registering and not turning up any more, since they will be replaced by those who are there after 15 minutes.

My vote:

Let's have one unique system for everyone and if its possible, let this be the seas system! If not, than have an improved etr, which is the PPK version + waiting list, 15 minutes system and course cataloque!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:45 pm 
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To tell the truth I like our (seas) preregistration system much better than that of the ETR. I agree with those who said even if this is their last term cannot get into courses because of the points, bonus points, etc. This is one of my problems, too.

The second is not directly related to the preregistration but it causes great problems only during the preregistration period and this is the lack of information. I did not know till this Monday that there are courses, programmes for which ,despite the fact that they can be taken up in the ETR ,have to be taken up not through the ETR. In my opinion it is a quite important inf. and should be among the other data about a course. But perhaps it is only my problem.

With the seas preregistration I'm quite satisfied. My only problem is the same as of Melgirl (if I can remember well). She said we do not know or better expressed cannot know whether we can go to a certain seminar or not in advance and we don't have the possibility to be on more waiting lists.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 6:21 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 1:24 pm
Posts: 118
I agree with darthvendy, octopuss, Clarika and Adam Dobay- the TTK is slighty better than the PPK one. But nowhere near as good as the seas one.
The things that need to be considered are things like:

I don't know how many students sign up to courses giving a '9' but they never turn up. Is that fair on the others? No of course not, it shows a blatant disregard for fellow students. But because waiting lists exist if they don't turn up someone else can take their place. If there will be a cut off in the ETR with either the TTK or the PPK system for those of us at seas then a lot of students, who would actually wish to take up the course, will miss out.

Also nice thought that students should go out do their pre-reg elsewhere if they don't have fast net connections but as Clarika pointed out when the 'versenyjelentkezes' was on for the PPK courses it was impossible to get on the ETR for hours (regardless of how good the net connection was).

Nice thought, so the versenyjelentkezes starts at 12pm uh huh and then what about those who are in class, or aren't in the vicinity of a library, or are at ajtosi and want to use the computers there (last count there were what about 18 computers available for student use and there are how many students???), or can't use Wi-Fi spots or...the list could go on and on. Countless students jump on for others as well taking a list of 4 or 5 names to do registration on the ETR for. Two words: not fair.

All summer there is nothing about courses for the next semester on the ETR making students lives difficult, especially those with two majors where they have an idea about courses at seas. Not related directly at least to the question at hand.

And finally to end my raving and ranting:
I'm in my last year but with the PPK system I couldn't get into phys.ed courses simply because I didn't have enough points! Great. Doubtless half the students on the list aren't going to attend the class but they decided to sign up anyway. Doubtless also that this happens with others who wish to take up courses, are in their final year but can't because of point counting. We get by without points here at seas. Everyone has a category based on their year (or position as a TA or a disabled student) and it works well. I have zero complaints with the seas system.

But I think these things have sort of been mentioned :wink: just wanted to vent my spleen :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 5:21 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 8:08 pm
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Unfortunately I know both systems well, and I think one of them is worse than the other. What I would miss very much is that I can't mark more than one course with the same code at the same time. The 1-9 system is much better.
I also agree (though I have ADSL at home) that versenyjelentkezés is absolutely unfair. There's no way you can access ETR for a couple of hours.
Not to mention the waiting list. It's one of the best things ever created!!! There are some teachers who let students in even if the quota is 20 but there are 24 of us. But in PPK and TTK they can't let us attend the course, because there is no place for us in the ETR.
What is also unfair is that the lectures are limited as well, while in seas3 we don't even have to preregister for them. There should be no limitation in this case.
Again, it is very important for me that the course catalogue remains, because every teacher has different course plans. In ETR we don't know anything about a course.
And finally: In ETR there was not a single course indicated during the whole summer, while in seas3 we knew about a lot of courses in May or maybe even earlier.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 5:11 pm 
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To me, the PPK system seems much more predictable and fair. I reckon that in the case of this system, if you can't register for a course, you can only blame yourself (or your internet connection... :wink: ), while the TTK registration is more random. Anyway, the plan of the new BTK system is more like that of the PPK, so it seems OK to me.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 4:21 pm 
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I think both systems have their disadvantages. At the PPK system "versenyjelentkezés" is what I object, and at TTK it is "mázli", but I still go for PPK, because I guess that is the better one of the two bad choices.
I would really hate to spend long hours sitting in front of my computer clicking desperately with my mouse waiting ETR to let me in, but I still like that option more than having my schedule determined by a computer, because that is what the TTK "mázli" means, as I understand. If there are, say, ten options for a seminar with the same code, I get different "mázli"s for each of them, which means that I have bigger chance to get in one than another, which is not a very fortunate thing at our Faculty, given that most students have more majors and not every time is good for them (not mentioning different teachers and different topics at seminars). This could result in serious delay in graduation for some.
I agree with the others that course grading and waiting lists should be adopted, because that makes the whole thing more fair. And everybody should adopt our system, anyway :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 3:46 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 1:43 pm
Posts: 418
Location: ELTE BTK
I think "The -2000 bonus points" are relevant because seas had spent loads of semesters trying to find out what students need which they didn't care about so this system might help.

I don't find the TTK system overcomplicated, its neatly and precisely constructed with all possible outcomes so I like it more. On the top of all, I've tried out the PPK system which I hated from the beginning so if that's how I'll have to go for my English courses, well, I don't know.

Oh, and it isn't that obvious that every bölcsész student has acces to fast net, a versenyjelentkezés would end up as it is on PPK and ÁJK: nobody can load etr site for two hours because for every student there are 2-3-4-... others (friends, parents etc.) who try to catch courses paralelly.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 2:22 pm 
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I mostly agree with what Adam Dobay has written. The things that I would miss the most are truly the 1-9 ranking option of courses and the waiting list. I also find the PPK "versenyjelentkezés" unfair and a little distasteful, because it feels more like battling against each other, which the 'mázli' factor seems to eliminate. (This is a question of taste, perhaps the latter version feels more 'English' to me. :lol:)

What I would like to add that in appendix 2, I only found that students of the BTK will have priority over students of other faculties. I think the students of the specific major (in our case, English or American) should also have priority over students of other majors, as well. Also, 1 point seems to little for me to award 'older' students per semester, and students with double majors should also be allocated more bonus points. I also find the suggestion of szigetva imprtant, i.e., that disabled students and teaching assistants have priority over others, or at least, receive some bonus points.

All in all, I would prefer the TTK system over the PPK one, but the SEAS one is by far the best prereg system. So if we were allowed to keep it, or at least, have the same system in the etr, that would be too good to believe. We are not worthy. :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 1:42 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 4:35 pm
Posts: 8
Location: Budapest
My first impressions are the following: the TTK version is a bit overcomplicated and its description reflects this very much. The 'mázli' part is something you either like or hate.

The -2000 bonus points seems to be a stupid thing or we simply don't get its real purpose.

The PPK version is a more reasonable one and it seems to be a fair solution. I'm in favor of 'versenyjelentkezés' because I don't think it'd be unfair. It starts at noon so if you don't have access to the Internet at home you can go to a library or somewhere where you can go online (e.g. free Wi-Fi hotspots, like the one at BME).

The planned ranking privileges seem to be fine, they are more elaborated than the SEAS system, which ranks you according to your category only and doesn't make differences between the types of lectures.

If I'm thinking in ETR terms, I'd go for the PPK-style registration although I think that SEAS is also a good alternative and a more stable and reliable one than ETR (due to the fact that the SEAS version was written in a more stable and efficient programming language and it runs on a *nix server).

So, if we don't have to think in a unified system, I'd go for an improved SEAS system.

But hey, what the heck, anything is better than the 'lottery' kind of registrations used some years ago when I was a first year student. :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 12:21 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:53 am
Posts: 137
Location: Behind you!
First thoughts
My first problem with both systems was that they simply aren't simple enough. While I could understand the SEAS system on the first reading, the appendix I had to read about three of four times to make sense.

Then, what I seriously don't understand is the "Bonus" points in the TTK system, mainly the example with the -2000 bonus points. Does that mean that if I fail a subject, I will have less chance to register for it again?
And the other thing. Why do I get less bonus points if I am registering for something later than I'm "supposed to"? That means that if anything happens, I get many conflicting courses, or I get sick and don't finish my courses (which happened to me last semester) and thus I fall behind in my schedule, I will have less and less chance to finish university in time? I can see that if I'm "older" I get points but if I'm in my fourth year I get 8 bonus points but if I'm on schedule I get 500? That seems at least a bit odd.

(EDIT: I see now in appendix #3 that the BTK point system would be something different than the very complicated one of TTK and PPk, which I like. The proposed BTK system looks better, though it may be good if you got at least 1 extra point if you are trying again in a course that you have already tried to finish but couldn't.)

What's missing?
What I miss from this is the 1-to-9 system of giving our own priorities to classes if there are a number of them. In the current ETR-system, if I understand correctly, if there are 10 possibilities for a course and I have, say, 4 that are good for me but I don't know which one I will be able to get into, how do I decide which one to tick? Can I even tick more than one? How will the system decide which one I get if I am eligible for more than one? While SEAS lets me use the simple possibility for this, in ETR there is only one tick for everything and every tick is final.

The other thing missing is the waiting list. Let's suppose I do not get into a course of 25 people. But out of those 25 people there will probably be only 22 who turn up, but there is no waiting list because all registrations after the 25 are deleted in the "vágás".
It's something like when I wanted to register for a psychology lecture, which was limited to 150 people. From my experience I highly doubt that more than 50 will turn up at each and every lecture, yet I still can't register, and I had this problem with psychology lectures since I came here, thus my one-year schedule dropback with my teaching practice.

My vote
From the two options, I favour TTK more, as I sincerely hate 'versenyjelentkezés', I think that it is totally undemocratic with people who do not have instant and fast internet access at all times at home.
Still, I don't want to vote for it because at this point I can only see that it lacks the features that make SEAS, well, normal. Neither of these systems account for things like not everyone knowing the exact class he or she will be able to get into. ETR proposes an ideal world of class registration and working timetables which does not exist, and I think the system should adjust to that.
And because of that, I vote for the last option, because there are things that will have to be implemented in ETR before I shall use it instead of SEAS3.

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 Post subject: preregistration in ETR
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 11:27 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:15 pm
Posts: 808
Here's your chance to influence ETR!

Most probably ETR will take over preregistration. We have agreed that in January 2006 there will be a mule system: you will have to preregister for courses on both ETR and seas3. If the former breaks down, its data will be deleted, and seas3 will take control. If ETR works more or less properly, seas3 will be discontinued.

We received a set of documents about the plans (alas, it's in Hungarian), which are here:
cover letter and schedule: doc, pdf
appendix 1: about ranking: doc, pdf
appendix 3: ranking privileges: doc, pdf (SEAS will try adding disabled students and teaching assistants to this list)
appendix 4: student statistics: doc, pdf

If interested, please read these documents carefully, especially appendix 1, and cast your vote about which of the two systems, TTK, PPK, you prefer. In a nutshell: in the TTK-system groups are filled up by chance (that's more like the current SEAS system), in the PPK-system there exists a cut (va'ga's), after which you get into courses on a first-come-first-served basis (you might have had experiences with this system already with your pedagogy, psychology and PE classes). To give my twopennyworth: I find the TTK-system more appealing, probably because it looks more like ours. But don't be biased, think of it and cast your vote. The deadline is 29 September, noon.

(You can use this topic for more elaborate comments.)

(We cant' guarantee that the result of this poll will be decisive.)

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Last edited by szigetva on Fri Sep 30, 2005 12:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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