ELTE SEAS

Discussion Forum
It is currently Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:12 pm

All times are UTC + 1 hour




Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 101 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next

After a careful examination of the documents attached, which of the two systems offered in appendix 1 do you prefer?
Poll ended at Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:27 am
TTK system 43%  43%  [ 31 ]
PPK system 21%  21%  [ 15 ]
they look equal to me 3%  3%  [ 2 ]
I know of a better one 33%  33%  [ 24 ]
Total votes : 72
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 12:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:15 pm
Posts: 808
The thread on problems with SzHEK was put here: http://seas3.elte.hu/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2023

_________________
szp


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:54 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:15 pm
Posts: 808
Parat wrote:
As for anxious ETR people, well, I don't think the wishes and needs of the administrative staff should come before that of the students
We agree. But in order to represent the "needs of students and staff" (primarily students in this issue), one has to know what they are (hence the justification of this topic). There are above 2000 students at SEAS, of whom about a dozen are engaged in the discussion here (so far), and they do so without any formal mandate from the others. This is why it is a pity there's no SzHEK at SEAS.
Parat wrote:
What if we let non-SEAS students versenyjelentkezni in ETR after SEAS preregistration?
This would only be possible if after preregistration SEAS students registered for the courses in a few days. But then we're back to where it is impossible to move about groups in the first three weeks.

_________________
szp


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:23 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:39 pm
Posts: 34
"This way it will be impossible for non-SEAS students to register for SEAS courses. Furthermore, the ETR management are anxious to have all activity taking place within ETR. We must have well-supported arguments to keep out. (Saying ETR is a crap may be true, but is not something one could come up with in a dispute with the ETR management.)"


You're right, sorry for using a swear word.

As for anxious ETR people, well, I don't think the wishes and needs of the administrative staff should come before that of the students (and teachers, but this issue has less to do with them as far as I can see it). They should take into account what's best for the students and teachers (and the Hungarian people they'er indirectly owned by) and do their bests to get it done.

Why don't we come up with a fair system for non-SEAS students to take SEAS courses? I think this could be part of a great argument for SEAS.

-it works (unlike ETR)
-people like it
-it's fair
...
-it does not exclude non-SEAS students (if we can come up with some relevant modifications)

What if we let non-SEAS students versenyjelentkezni in ETR after SEAS preregistration?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: HI!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:06 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:50 am
Posts: 78
Location: Pomáz
I would also prefer the TTK system: it also has problems, but it is further better than the PPK system (sitting in front of the computer when the 'versenyjelentkezés' starts and the system is overladen and then clicking on the Update button is freaky annoying and makes me desperate. You have to get a wide connection!) So you don't know sure whether you can get in course or not when you happen to be dropped out of at 'vágás'.

Maybe if we'll use the TTK system - most of you prefer it according ot the votes- the 'mázlipont' might be modified somehow. It's true that if your 'mázli' is wrong you had a little chance to get in a course and you have to search for another where you have better 'mázli' to be in.

I used both system 3 times and I had less problem with the TTK one. :D


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 9:18 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:07 pm
Posts: 6
Location: Pomáz / Budapest
HI!

I would like to alter a bit what szigetva wrote about prereg being registration in the etr. I totally agree with it except one point: actually, you can persuade teachers to let you in, its just much more difficult, than in seas. Teachers have the right to let people in above the limit by two means:

1) raise the limit so more students can get in (teachers are usually not happy about this)

2) let in some selected students by writing an e-mail to the etr staff including the names and eha-codes of these people and the etr staff will put them on the list after the registration period

The main problem I see in those, who are on the list according to etr, but are not attending the course. Teachers have no right to kick them out, since they cannot influence the etr lists, and these people occupy places where other students (really wanting the course) could be admitted.

I see why we cannot keep seas as it is now, but is it impossible to add some of it's advantages to etr?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 8:50 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:15 pm
Posts: 808
Parat wrote:
Time clashes: A lot of times ETR has no data whatsoever about class times so it won't be much of a help in sznchronyzing your double major schedule.
True. That's why I was talking about a theoretical possibility, while on seas3 it is theoretically impossible to synchronize time tables with other majors, since we only have SEAS data.
Parat wrote:
I'm strongly against any solution without something like seas' PV 1-9 where you can formally prioritize your choices.
This bright idea (from clarika) is of any use if you have to mark several parallel courses. This is not the case in ETR as far as I know
Parat wrote:
KEEP SEAS! Why can't we? We could do it before the ETR registration begins and simply feed the data in there.
This way it will be impossible for non-SEAS students to register for SEAS courses. Furthermore, the ETR management are anxious to have all activity taking place within ETR. We must have well-supported arguments to keep out. (Saying ETR is a crap may be true, but is not something one could come up with in a dispute with the ETR management.)
Parat wrote:
Who is our SZHEK leader? They should do something.
http://seas3.elte.hu/forum/viewtopic.php?t=287

_________________
szp


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 8:38 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:39 pm
Posts: 34
Time clashes: A lot of times ETR has no data whatsoever about class times so it won't be much of a help in sznchronyzing your double major schedule.

I'm strongly against any solution without something like seas' PV 1-9 where you can formally prioritize your choices.

ETR in its current state is a worthless piece of crap. It hampers more than it helps. The basic problem is that ELTE is huge and, hm, diverse. Basically all teachers have their own ideas about how to organize, announce, change etc their classes and the examinations, and most of them also think that their ideas and expectations go without saying with all the students most of whom of course have no clue what the requirements are. (Thank God SEAS is a fortunate exception to this though.)

KEEP SEAS! Why can't we? We could do it before the ETR registration begins and simply feed the data in there. It's fair, gives you second chances and there is no mazli or versenyjelentkezes. (Random selection there is though.)

Who is our SZHEK leader? They should do something.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 11:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:15 pm
Posts: 808
(Dear Posters, please keep this topic clean of offtopic comments.)

Let me make a summary of the surprisingly active debate (I wonder why there's no SEAS SzHÉK if students are so interested in things):

TTK vs. PPK: the random sorting looks slightly more attractive than the rush-on-the-web method, which -- even if it starts at noon -- favours those with a fast and wide connection.

seas3 vs. others: preregistration on seas3 has a distinct disadvantage: it is a system isolated from the rest of the university, i.e., there's no way to synchronize your English/American and other courses: while (ideally, but there was a slip this term) there's no way of getting into two courses that clash timewise, this may easily happen if you also get into nonEnglish/nonAmerican courses. If you preregister for all your courses in the ETR, this option is (theoretically) available for all of them.

Previously, I thought the result of preregistration is immediately available in the TTK and PPK system. Apparently, it is not, since students coming after you with a better mázli can push you off any list, just like students coming after you with a better category. The same is true for the PPK system. So the lack of real-time results is not an issue: these are only available in a hard-core first-come-first-served system, which we appear to be against. Perhaps we could produce permanent random order during preregistration, which will fossilize candidates' position on lists. (This is actually the mázli mechanism.)

A distinct disadvantage I see with preregistration in any of the ETR systems is that it is not separate from registration. That is, you can't really change groups in the first three weeks. You can't persuade teachers of the unavoidability of taking you in their groups, because ETR mercilessly kills you above the limit. SEAS preregistration is a means of avoiding violence in the first sessions of courses. (For courses running in a single group there's no point in preregistration.) That is: SEAS preregistration is simply providing the teacher with a ranklist to ease their task of selecting who to let in their group. ETR preregistration is registration.

_________________
szp


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 9:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:07 pm
Posts: 6
Location: Pomáz / Budapest
Dear Melgirl!

What I meant was that it is not possible, that let's say 6 friends register in the name of one student at the same time. You can give your data of course to someone and ask him/her to do the registration for you but this doesn't take places from other students. For them, it doesn't matter whether its you, who registers for your courses, or someone else in your name.

I wanted to point this out because from your first message others could have the impression that if someone has many friends with quick internet, than they have better chances. The systems doesn't let you in, if someone already logged in with the same code!

I hope its clear now :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 9:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:53 am
Posts: 137
Location: Behind you!
babyrooo wrote:
How can people plan their terms in these conditions and keep themselves to the advised order of taking up courses (for which they give the extra points)?!


It is the basic ELTE tagline "Oldja meg". With all regulations, unbalanced courses, credits and requirements in the different majors, departments, all this changing from semester to semester (like the infamous adding of required sport courses last year, which caused a lot of people to lose a year, even go into paying status because of the backward regulation), plus there being different regulations for BTK/TTK/IK etc. and PPK, I see very little possibility for the credit system & ETR generation to be able to finish their studies in five years.
Six is the minimum of years spent at ELTE for almost everyone who I know and started their studies in the 2002/2003 year, even those who do live with their parents at home (thus not having to devote extra time to getting money for the rent and other expenses and doing housework) and not doing anything else than studying.
And my own example - with only one semester "lost" because I spent most of it sick, I'm still way behind schedule and am now planning to finish in my seventh year. Why? If you miss only two or three classes in your smaller majors (that including TKN-courses), you can lose up to one year in your studies because of prerequisites -- in small majors because many classes are also available either in the spring or autumn semesters, and in TKN because they have the most absurd prerequisites (I'm still not past most of my TKN-classes because of one lecture that has no connection to anything else but is the prerequisite of everything else). Wickedness. I hope I won't have to pay full semesters because of the remaining few courses I won't be able to finish.

_________________
The Myth Within - http://www.bennunkelomitosz.hu


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 9:34 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 8:50 pm
Posts: 19
I really like the TTK way, I've already used it with my other major. With it I can see whether I will have the chance of getting in course before the system is shut, so I can choose another course in time, when I proved unlucky with my first choice..Actually this was what I lacked at Seas system...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 9:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:15 pm
Posts: 808
octopuss wrote:
What I would like to add that in appendix 2, I only found that students of the BTK will have priority over students of other faculties. I think the students of the specific major (in our case, English or American) should also have priority over students of other majors, as well.
The category "ko"telezo" vagy ko"telezo"en va'laszthato' ta'rgy felve'tele" covers this: English/American courses are obligatory only for English/American students.

_________________
szp


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 9:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 1:24 pm
Posts: 118
Quote:
3.) There was some misleading info about having many friends to register for you in the etr, which is not possible, since you can only log in once with one code.


Misleading info? If you give them your code and password they can log in for you- that easy. Since the things available on the etr system for students is limited (i.e. you can't really change important info via the system like bank account number or address etc etc) there isn't really a reason why someone would NOT want to give their details to a friend if it helps their chances of getting into a course.

I think there's still quite a few people at the dep't who remember the lottery system- and how much it sucked.

I think the laziness of the whole BTK is spot on- as pointed out by Adam Dobay. But the root cause of that could take up a separate topic in itself :). I don't know how others see it- and I'm only an English major but I've been in a few of the other departments- but seas is right on track. It (seems) to be organised and because of this students and teachers want to make each other's lives easier. It's only when university life outside of seas interferes that confusion begins.

I wonder what would happen if the whole uni decided to set itself up in the same fashion as the seas system?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 8:50 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:07 pm
Posts: 6
Location: Pomáz / Budapest
I also have problems with decoding these things...

Does this mázli thing mean that I have to choose courses depending on their "csoportszám", instead of topic, teacher and time considerations? :? This seems nonsense to me.

Adam Dobay is quite right in what he said about the departments not caring how students will put together their timetables. Some courses were only opened and others were cancelled (with people registered for them)one day (!) before the end of the prereg session! This is what's not fair!!!!

As a two major student, I had to rethink my timetable about 12 times and since psychology prereg results came out one week after the seas results, I couldn't avoid changing courses which I was already admitted to.

How can people plan their terms in these conditions and keep themselves to the advised order of taking up courses (for which they give the extra points)?!

(Sorry, I realise I'm a bit disturbed... :roll:)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 8:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:53 am
Posts: 137
Location: Behind you!
Okay, from reading all your posts since I first wrote I realised that I do not understand two terms here which others may understand.

Mázli? Not likely.
First, I would like someone smart to tell me what "mázli" exactly means. Is it something like me pointing at courses and the computer shuffling me into one of the available spots? That sounds horrible.

And for the second one
clarika wrote:
I think "The -2000 bonus points" are relevant because seas had spent loads of semesters trying to find out what students need which they didn't care about so this system might help.


The example in the document with "programtervező" people taking "programozási környezet" is indecipherable for people like me who have no idea what that major/profession and that course is, so if anyone can translate that to a human language, please try, thanks :)

Waiting list addition
It would really be good if you could take a course even if you're over the limit, because it would also show how many people actually want to take a course. Then, if there is for example three times the students waiting for one class, the department in question can (like at SEAS) open another course in that or the next semester.

Early enough
One last bit about being on time. SEAS has been THE place to keep time. It isn't really because of the system it works in but that they devise the whole thing early enough, they ask the teachers who are used to giving their times early enough, etc.
At other parts of the BTK however, let's admit it, people are lazy and do not really care about the students. (That's partly what is holding the whole working together thing back, everyone is king of their little subdepartment) I have always bumped into the problem that the departments simply do not care to put together classes until one week before course registration starts. One of my friends is at a department where courses are only put out on the board only one week after the year has started. Laazy.
Thankfully, we at the film department which is the other major of many SEAS students could work out that one of the teachers kicks the department staff (and the other teachers) around so they post the class times ASAP.

_________________
The Myth Within - http://www.bennunkelomitosz.hu


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 101 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next

All times are UTC + 1 hour


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group