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After a careful examination of the documents attached, which of the two systems offered in appendix 1 do you prefer?
Poll ended at Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:27 am
TTK system 43%  43%  [ 31 ]
PPK system 21%  21%  [ 15 ]
they look equal to me 3%  3%  [ 2 ]
I know of a better one 33%  33%  [ 24 ]
Total votes : 72
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 9:45 pm 
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I think we should just propose the 1-9 system. It is so much more simple.

On another note, is there enough funding at ELTE currently to print circa 50 copies with the large letters "IF YOU WANT TO INFLUENCE ETR PREREGISTRATION COME TO THE FORUM HERE: (url) YOUR VOICE COUNTS" and post it around ADS?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 9:17 pm 
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I thought so. But then how do I know if the poetry or the novel seminars will suit my timetable better. Especially, when there's nothing to be known about my other major?

Actually, I have thought of running those who participate in the course demand survey with one category higher in the preregistration show. But then only for those courses they demanded. But then everybody will demand everything. How do you overcome that in the TTK preregistration?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 9:03 pm 
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szigetva wrote:
As far as I see, it is something like our course demand survey, i.e., it is a way of counting how many places should be offered in the different groups of a course. What I don't understand is how someone can preregister for a given course without knowing its time and teacher.


I think you have to prereg. for e.g. ANN-112 if you want to take litintro. seminar next term which means that you will definately choose from the 20 or so options when available, but you don't have to specify if you'd want to take 112/a or 112/f when you prereg.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 8:50 pm 
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I think I buy the mazli stuff, if it is the case that for two given EHAs E1 and E2 (since that's the only thing that counts in the case of a given course) E1 will be ranked higher than E2 in exactly as many groups as E2 is ranked higher than E1. (Actually, this is trivially false in the case of courses with an odd number of groups. :) )

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 8:36 pm 
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This mázli thing is getting weirder and weirder. As far as I can see both Gabrielle and szigetva are right, but I think it's the mázli system which dominates, as with two people of the same kind (that is, same number of semesters and same majors) it will be the mázli (which is at least partly computer-generated, but depending on how you look at it, it may be just pure chance) which decides what course you get into, not you by selecting those you wish more and those you wish less. At this rate we could be introducing automatic major selection...

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 8:34 pm 
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Gabrielle wrote:
No, because it is not just "mázli" ehich counts..If the person has to take that course, and has preregistered for it, than he will get more points, and this prder is before the mázli is taken into account. So there is no diffference in this point...
So take this case: the course had 20 places. We ignore preregistration, because its status is not clarified (see previous note). The course is obligatory for all the 21 people who want to take it. Who the lucky ones will be is determined by the candidates' EHA. Isn't it better to have a truly random sort there?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 8:27 pm 
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Thanks for the clarification. "If the person has to take that course" basically means if the person is a student of English (or American), since courses are either obligatory for all these students or not. "Obligatoriness" only gives priority to SEAS students over nonSEAS students (which is fine).

Preregistration has a different meaning in the TTK system. As far as I see, it is something like our course demand survey, i.e., it is a way of counting how many places should be offered in the different groups of a course. What I don't understand is how someone can preregister for a given course without knowing its time and teacher.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 8:20 pm 
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No, because it is not just "mázli" ehich counts..If the person has to take that course, and has preregistered for it, than he will get more points, and this prder is before the mázli is taken into account. So there is no diffference in this point...


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 6:52 pm 
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If I interpret appendix 1 correctly, mazli is a function of your EHA, the term and the code of the course. That is, John Smith (whose EHA is JOSMAAB.ELTE) will always get the same mazli for course ANN--214/c in a given term. Accordingly, if many others with a lucky EHA (since the other two numbers are constant) want to get in the course, there's no way Mr Smith can get in. In our current system, this only happens if all those who want to get in the course have a better category (are "older") than Smith.

Thus it is ETR which predetermines whether someone gets in the course and it does so without any sensible reason.

Is my interpretation correct?

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 Post subject: Re: HI!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 6:25 pm 
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Adam Dobay wrote:
clarika wrote:
I don't really know what's wrong with the 'mázlipont's, since this is what's going on with the seas system...


Huh? Wasn't the mázli a quasi-random process to sort you in a course? I though that the debate was over that if the mázli system is introduced, there would be no real free will over what to choose from /a, /b, /c, etc. but getting sorted in without the 1-9 preference.


well, maybe I thought it wrong... I mean, if we can change the system a little bit, we might introduce this factor, too, but I'm not sure. What I meant was that everyone writes long-long posts of how unfair mázlifaktor is and I just wanted to add that this is not a totally new way to get into courses...

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 Post subject: Re: HI!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 4:22 pm 
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clarika wrote:
I don't really know what's wrong with the 'mázlipont's, since this is what's going on with the seas system...


Huh? Wasn't the mázli a quasi-random process to sort you in a course? I though that the debate was over that if the mázli system is introduced, there would be no real free will over what to choose from /a, /b, /c, etc. but getting sorted in without the 1-9 preference.

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 Post subject: Re: HI!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 3:25 pm 
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botond007 wrote:
Maybe if we'll use the TTK system - most of you prefer it according ot the votes- the 'mázlipont' might be modified somehow. It's true that if your 'mázli' is wrong you had a little chance to get in a course and you have to search for another where you have better 'mázli' to be in.


I don't really know what's wrong with the 'mázlipont's, since this is what's going on with the seas system...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 9:55 pm 
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szigetva wrote:
course details should be on the ETR by mid-December for the spring term and by mid-May for the autumn term. What if you let other departments know about this?


In one half of the majors I know, all classes get into the ETR before the start of the semester but most do so without times. In the other half of the majors, no classes get to be known before the start of the semester.

Why? Most of the times, the teachers do not feel obliged to sit together and devise a timetable until the start of the semester. In other cases, the administration at a given major thinks it can wait.
Most students, on the other hand, can only complain. Others are afraid - going up to teachers and (sometimes rude) administrative people one by one asking them to please devise the timetable in time? Not likely when many people like to have power in their little district.

Unfortunately at ETR (this was told to me by one of my teachers at the film department) it may take monthsfi to make any change in the posted schedules. One of my teachers would have liked to add three or four classes to the ETR. She was first promised in June, then July, then August, then September by the people there. The classes were eventually added three days before the end of registration last week.

That is another reason why I wouldn't give administration into the ETR's hands, as there are not enough people there and they can't cope with the amount of things to be done (we had to wait 6 monts for a simple search routine to be done for crying out loud, and their forum is still in no proper shape).

Is there data on how many people are working on the ETR? I could get as far as 2. (I'm sorry if I'm going off-topic with this but I think that this is an important issue and it's connected to the problem we're discussing here.)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 8:58 pm 
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It's not the starting time but the finishing time that counts. This was set to be noon on the last Friday before the term begins, because the sheets had to be printed and sent to the teachers before the first class, potentially beginning at 8am on the next Monday. (Well, this was two years ago, with todays internet connections perhaps we could do with a somewhat later deadline now.)

Note, however, that the regulations state the following: "Az előzetes kurzuskínálatot a szorgalmi időszak utolsó napjáig közzé kell tenni." ETVSz 37. § (3). I.e., it is not SEAS that is early, it is others who are late by not abiding by the regulations in force: course details should be on the ETR by mid-December for the spring term and by mid-May for the autumn term. What if you let other departments know about this?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 8:37 pm 
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I'm very satisfied with the SEAS system. (even when there was organised personal preregistation a few years ago: it was far more humane than e.g., in the History department where I had to kick&fight, stand in the doorway at 7.30 a.m. each day of the first week, etc.)

now it is also very clear & just. the only problem is that SEAS prereg starts many weeks before ETR > so I don't have the faintest idea about my other major. every term I have serious clashes and I have to change my courses in the last moment & run after teachers. (and I feel myself guilty because I don't keep myself to the prereg dates I sent in the summer, after careful planning...)

so it would be good if SEAS prereg started at the same time when the other courses in ETR are made available for browsing.


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